[Open] National teams ranking. How was it calculated actually?

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2020-12-14 • 254 views • 20 replies

Imagine a newcomer on the platform - just exploring the menu. 

Magic numbers. She/he has only a short description - without example how to calculate it by itself. You know there are a lot of people who really care what the numbers you put here. 

And Volleybox got some points in their eyes if you show transparency where did you get these numbers and why it matters here.

Expected: detailed tooltip, real example with formula, etc. Users can pick up this info and make their own calculations.

Volleybox 430
1 month ago
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Have you tried to hover team name?

Vitalii LatyshAuthor 95 11
1 month ago
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@Volleybox sure. all these numbers say nothing to me. why 40 points for this tournament, 35 for other, etc.

Why Rank set to 9.00? etc. How a user can understand where it comes from?

Volleybox 430
1 month ago
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@VitaliiLatysh ok you're right in both aspects.

Regarding first issue: detailed table (with all tournaments and ratio's columns) will be showed in popup after clicking on the team row. Expect it on this week.

Regarding second issue: there will be (i) icon showing explanation after hovering it.

Volleybox 430
1 month ago
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@VitaliiLatysh is that better now?

Vitalii LatyshAuthor 95 11
1 month ago
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@Volleybox checking…

Vitalii LatyshAuthor 95 11
1 month ago
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@Volleybox 

  1. help hovering for Tournament ratio, Place ratio? Where are they come from? Why these numbers?
  2. Bottom line - SUM
Volleybox 430
1 month ago
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@VitaliiLatysh

  1. Description for tournament ratio have been added. Place ratio doesn't need to be described in my opinion. I don't know even how to describe it.
  2. Let's scroll down this table.
Vitalii LatyshAuthor 95 11
1 month ago
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@Volleybox 

  1. Example. Summer Universiade 2017. Why Place ration 4.50?
  2. hm… not clear from UI that it is scrollable
Vitalii LatyshAuthor 95 11
1 month ago
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@Volleybox 

Based on what? What are the criterias for prestigio?

BTW, overall, much better, but still not clear why the user should care by team rankings on volleybox. It still looks more like “Spectators score” nothing more.

Volleybox 430
1 month ago
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@VitaliiLatysh on moderators knowledge of volleyball.

So what's your suggestion?

Vitalii LatyshAuthor 95 11
1 month ago
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@Volleybox you know… I've just seen briefly how the ranking calculated in FIVB https://www.fivb.com/en/volleyball/rankings

The bottom line. I do not understand where are the roots. Total magic, do not understand why I should care about these rankings at all. Same for Volleybox rankings. What is the purpose? For whom?

Maybe I do not understand the business value. Please, explain. The only reason till now - these rankings can be used by betting services.

1 month ago
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@VitaliiLatysh I don't understand what you need to know ?

These two rankings have nothing in common, the FIVB one is based on the last couple of years in order to have the top seeds in tournaments. The Volleybox ranking is an all-time ranking based on all national teams tournaments registered in the database.

Vitalii LatyshAuthor 95 11
1 month ago
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@Sherlock all questions are redirected to my curiosity. And thank you guys for your time and patience!

If FIVB is having it for the purpose of seeding in tournaments → why does it needed here?

1 month ago
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@VitaliiLatysh Well, this is good to see which nations are good at playing volleyball ! And even more for novices. Would do you believe that a closed nation like Cuba would be 2nd ? How good is your country in the world rankings ?

The main problem is for nations which changed of status like USSR/Russia, Yugoslavia/Serbia, East/West Germany. Those nations are disavantaged, but well, couldn't they have a normal political history ? 😝

1 month ago
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I had a question regarding to this issue. Nations from American continent are clearly advantaged in this rankings, they have so many tournaments :

  • South American Championships (or NORCECA Championships for the north)
  • NORCECA Champions Cup
  • Pan American Cup
  • Pan American Games

For example in Europe there are only the European Championships. So I wanted opinions, do you think we can lower a little all those tournaments ? For example the USA finished 2nd, 2nd, 6th and 7th of these tournaments in 2019 and won 103 points without any good performance, meanwhile Serbia became European champions in an extremely high level tournament and won only 80 points.

 

Also @VitaliiLatysh I worked a lot on Volleybox ranks (and still modify it from times to times when I see something strange), so if you have any request about it don't hesitate to send me a private message !

Vitalii LatyshAuthor 95 11
1 month ago
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@Sherlock sure, mister “tournaments ranks” 😉

Volleybox 430
1 month ago
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@Sherlock I think that ranks should be based on how seriously teams are treating given tournament and on the strength of the the teams.

For example in World League there were playing nice teams but the best teams was treating this tournament as a testing ground and a friendly tournament. Teams that previously did not achieve much in the international arena gave their best in this tournament (e.g. Iran).

1 month ago
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@Volleybox Yes, when you see that USA third team beating Guatemala, Dominican Republic and Mexico in NORCECA Championships and earning 36 points for that, you have to re-think this scale.

Edit : That is almost the same as France beating Romania, Greece, Portugal, Italy, Bulgaria, Finland, Italy again and almost beating Serbia in an amazing five-setter.

4 weeks ago
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Update : doesn't work for beach players.

Volleybox 430
3 weeks ago
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