Under European Champs (Problem)

Fran 9
+3
2022-05-06 • 581 views • 16 replies

I know there are other more important things, but the issue of age selection is getting worse and worse. 

This year, for example, for the first time there will be a European U21. 

We are putting the European U19 with the U20 team, the U17 with the U18 and the U16 with the U17... obviously it is not correct but it is the only way to put it.

You should try to fix this issue as soon as possible, because the sooner it's correct, the less things there are to fix from bad data...

sitenoise 356 7
1 week ago
+2

This is my white whale issue 😀

FIVB going U21/U19 messes things up a bit, but I still think the solution is to have “Youth” and “Junior” TOURNAMENTS that allow for the changing/different AGE group squads that have participated in them … instead of hardcoding the tournaments as AGE specific tournaments

They used to be called “Youth” and “Junior” (and the age groups changed) but not any more by FIVB, so maybe that would confuse or freak people out … but I think it's better than calling actual under 20 players “under 19 humans” because the Tournament is hardcoded here that way and insists upon it

So if we had a “Junior” Tournament and you looked at the “Editions” page of it you would see different age U-Squads participated in it. 

Things changed in 2011, I think, and, at least in Asia, they changed the Continental “Youth” Tournament from U18 to U17 so that the U17 victors could actually play in the U18 World championship the following year. It used to be that the U18 squad that won a continental championship couldn't play in the U18 world championship because they had become too old

It's probably different for different regions of the world, so there may not be a solution that fits everywhere. AFAIK it isn't like there are age specific U-Squads formed and hanging out waiting for a tournament to pop up. There are Tournaments announced/scheduled and then age appropriate squads are assembled to compete in them.

Even if there are age specific U-Squads hanging out, if they don't play in any tournaments it's not a "data" problem here

 

sitenoise 356 7
1 week ago
+2

Boys' Youth European Volleyball Championship

The Boys' Youth European Volleyball Championship is a volleyball competition for men's national teams with players under the age of 18 years, currently held biannually and organized by the European Volleyball Confederation, the volleyball federation for Europe. Originally the age limit was 19; as of the 2018 edition, the competition age limit was changed from 19 to 18 and the name to U18 European Championship

Put the name change in the “alternative name” field so it will come up in searches, but keeping the Tournament Title as “Youth” and allowing for different age specific squads to participate in it would give us an “Editions” page for the tournament that would reflect the reality of changing age groups

Source
English wikipedia page

sitenoise 356 7
1 week ago
+2

FIVB Volleyball Women's U21 World Championship

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

  (Redirected from Women's Junior Volleyball World Championship)

The FIVB Volleyball Women's U21 World Championship is the world championship of volleyball for female players under the age of 21 organized by Fédération Internationale de Volleyball (FIVB).

The first tournament was staged in 1977 in Brazil. The second and third tournaments were played at intervals of four years, in 1981 and 1985; with the fourth tournament in 1987 the interval became, and remains, two years. The most recent tournament was hosted by Mexico and won by Japan.

In March 2022, FIVB decided to change the age category of the tournament by moving it from U20 to U21 in order to equate it with the Men's U21 World Championship.


Wikipedia is just ONE point of view. I'm not saying they are truth or “correct”,  but it's a problem they had to find a solution for as well. So even if the name AND the age requirements have changed, we're still talking about the same tournament – which has a history. That's what I want to get to. Maybe others don't. 

avid 28 5
1 week ago
+1

Was there ever a solution created? 

Would it be possible to just start a new tournament, with the appropriate age groups? 

I was going to add the U19 and U21 Pan Am Cups, but I don't want to mess anything up.  

sitenoise 356 7
6 days ago
+2

@avid I believe that's one road that has been taken: 
New age-named tournament = new tournament

Seems others have gone the route of putting U19 players in existing U18 tournaments, or vice versa

It would be nice if someone more familiar with those specific tournaments weighed in 

3 days ago
+3

@avid Each continental federation appears to have taken a slightly different approach since the FIVB announcement in March of U19, U21, and U23 age categories for both genders in 2023 and a new U17 age category for 2024.

http://www.norceca.info/news/volleyball/2022/3/new-regulations-for-age-group-categories-adopted-by-fivb.aspx

For Pan Am, it appears there has been one age category change, and all competition years have changed to even years in 2022 without any indication of temporary or permanent change.

Women's Youth was U18 until 2019. For 2022, it switched to even years and gone U19 according to host USA Volleyball.

https://usavolleyball.org/story/tulsa-to-host-2022-girls-u19-pan-american-cup/

Women's Junior age category appears to remain the same as U20 while it also has changed to even years now.

http://www.norceca.info/tournaments-events/2022/u20-women-pan-american-cup.aspx

For Men's side, the age category appears to remain the same regardless of the switch to even years from 2022 according to USA Volleyball.

https://usavolleyball.org/event/2022-u19-pan-american-cup/

https://usavolleyball.org/event/2022-u21-pan-american-cup/

avid 28 5
1 day ago
+1

@WoohyongChoi so I went through NORCECA's regulations… its U19/U21 in just the name… the age cut offs are still the U18/U20 rules… quite confusing. So I guess they can stay just the same? 

(if you want the source) 

http://norceca.net/2022%20Events/U19%20Girls%20Panam%20Cup/Forms%20U19%20Girls/Competition_Regulation_Girls%20Youth%20Copa%20Panamericana_U19_TULSA%20OKLAHOMA%20USA%20JULY%2016-24%20UPDATED%20MARCH%209-2022.pdf

http://norceca.net/2022%20Events/U20%20Panamerican%20Cup/Forms%20U20/CompetitionRegulations%20U20_Panamerican%20Cup_2022%20JUNE%205-13%20BC%20SUR%20MEXICO%20UPDATED%20ON%202-4-22.pdf

sitenoise 356 7
1 day ago
+2

@avid in a way that seems appropriate. Not that the continentals don't count/matter, but if it's the FIVB U19 WCh you're aiming for, and the previous year's continental tournaments are qualifiers for that , and if you want to be in the U19 WCh you better be U18 in that qualifier

FranAuthor 9 4
6 days ago
+3

I think the best thing is to do tournaments with the corresponding age. 

I am the one who is changing the Euro U18 to U17.

I am changing the 2022 edition little by little because there are classification sub-competitions and I don't know if the admin can change everything, even those competitions.

It would be great if the admin could change the 2020 and 2018 editions of the European U18 and put it in the U17 (if possible) and this age would already be solved.

Question: When was the change from Euro U20 to U19?

Problem: We still need to solve the U16 competitions, but until that age is registered, there is little we can do

FranAuthor 9 4
6 days ago
+1

Problem 2: I created the EuroU21 that will play for the first time this July but I can´t put any team because that age isn´t registered. Is the same problem like U16

sitenoise 356 7
6 days ago
+1

@Fran it should be trivial to add new age categories, just ping @Volleybox 

If that solves the problem to your satisfaction, Great! 

I've lost this battle. Things are different in Asia. I doubt it would be trivial to create Youth and Junior Tournaments that allowed for different age categories year to year … not to mention how to align the Euro way with the Asian way

sitenoise 356 7
6 days ago
+1

U18 European Championship - Мen is Europe’s main competition for national teams consisting of players under the age of 18 throughout the calendar year of the final round. It is a biennial event. The hosting teams earn direct spots among the 12 finalists. All other CEV national federations are eligible to take part in the qualification process. From 1995, when the competition was first held, through 2013, it was called Youth European Championship. The next two editions were named U19 European Championships. As of the 2018 edition, the competition age limit was changed from 19 to 18 and the name to U18 European Championship. Russia have won the title a record-high five times, between 1995 and 2013. Germany triumphed on top of the podium in 2018, while at the most recent U18 European Championship it was Italy who took gold.

Source
@Fran 

sitenoise 356 7
6 days ago
+1

Even CEV talks about this as the same ongoing tournament that changed names and in some cases age group (apparently different for men and women).

3 days ago
+2

Saw this a bit late. I'm wondering where is CEV's change announced?

CEV still calls it U20 in the official website (here without any changes, formerly called Junior championships) but the tournament name on volleyball seemed to have changed to U21? I have added Junior European Championship alternative name to "U21" series which probably need to be changed back to U20? Women's side remains the same in CEV as U19 (here, formerly called Junior championships)

For CEV Women's Youth Championships, it was U17 from 1995 through 2013, then U18 for 2015 and 2017, then changed back to U17 from 2018 when the competition was moved to even years according to CEV official website here. Looks like there are two duplicates on volleybox. One continuing series here, and a new one created only for 2022 by @Fran. The new one probably need to be deleted?

For CEV Men's Youth championships, as it's described by CEV here, it was U18 from 1995 through 2013, then U19 for 2015 and 2017, back to U18 when the competition was moved to even years in 2018. Volleybox has one series here for that, but with a wrong name of U19. Probably it should be changed to U18. I have added Youth Championships as an alternative name for now 

FIVB made changes to Women's championships 2023 U20→U21, and U18→U19 to align with Men's Championships (remains unchanged), and AVC made the change for Women's 2022 Championships to align with FIVB. U19→U20 and U17→U18. (announced here) That way, teams qualified in Asian continental women's championships in 2022 as U20 and U18 would go to FIVB 2023 women's U21 and U19 world championships.

For Asian age-category championships, what I did are 1) change age category to all ages, 2) change to new name (U18/U20), and 3) add old name (U17/U19) to alternative name.

FranAuthor 9 4
1 day ago
+1

@WoohyongChoi said “For CEV Women's Youth Championships, it was U17 from 1995 through 2013, then U18 for 2015 and 2017, then changed back to U17 from 2018 when the competition was moved to even years according to CEV official website here. Looks like there are two duplicates on volleybox. One continuing series here, and a new one created only for 2022 by @Fran. The new one probably need to be deleted?”

  • The new one (2022), must be transferred by the administrator so that all the information is not lost and that's it.
  • According to what @WoohyongChoi says that he started the tournament being U17, then all the information on the website is wrong, because if you look from the beginning it is U18, so all that information must be changed (https://women.volleybox .net/women-european-championships-u18-tt390)
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